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Post by Arnaud on Sept 9, 2016 15:41:03 GMT
Hey, this is my first try at Triton and I thought ..what the **** let's go crazy and try my luck at the officer's procedure the procedure and code tables are on the site www.enigmaworldcodegroup.com/officer-to-officer-decryptingHSN 1717/ 9 001 235 LYRX TLNX LRAU GYLY UGXM XOYH TTSD NBJY HKQN JJFM HXUP WBQY HYEJ JMTR ZTET PHWV HTKM EVVG GFWO VRHG NDZZ BJOZ XJBB JHAW EFNR HHGT TEKU ASGL BLIV UKNA VTBK SCDN LKHH GKIP XQGQ MZXW IMLF WVKT XCUU PCNZ ADNJ YLAI SFLC AANP PWJX IYON AFBJ WBLG YBKD EAEV XQJH RPNH NNAP LUPZ HATB PKRU QKZJ VQLO PPRS DJXJ TQRW GQPC XZKU OHWO HGZY JRBL EKHE HRGJ LHCB JKBR VDTA QTYN ISJQ DFVZ QQSU KJJE ORLH RNOK OTVV JBTF SBEF OGPO HLDE FEGE WTXH RYTM BOXP QNMN UTLI WHZR UTVG RUVX YZMW JEJM YVFG EAMX YONJ BLUT WAFB CYGO EIUZ HYZA SGZT OJSU LKOV UJPW JUIE GYMH TCUZ JFEQ FOJV XDSN IVGL MHOD XNEA EOEQ SODF VOMW XQES BBQB DQTY CMLU VTSX XJGL CMWO WFAS VGEC ANYE ULIP SOQU UYSN JDMP KYNJ RIPH KTCG CKFY SXKP QNTD BQIV QHQG UENF BVHL JRHH UDNK BPOH PVFQ VCHN OFXG SPYA HLIJ RTTK YOKK UNOC TDZJ DUEV GHPU ROXI PYCZ RPHG JVLE HULM IZXD MONS BKRT UIBT TTFD PXLK KQNO CHEM FILK TRYI NBKS ZPOT YQJD RQMZ NPBQ PWJG VBGQ TOLW OUWP CZBU FCHI LUDM ODZK OWDA GOLZ APVF AZMP TKZB FTZG PGGH NTFB VTWZ CSXK OLBV KCFC LZSL PKGW OBLC UMLJ ACXS KCNN RIHD FKXT QLPK PWKV EITC SPUL BJYB BPPO UQQM ZRWE DVVK TJUD ICQK KDGZ AGKJ FEZR PEUT BKCT QIRO VXTW GVQG LWEQ KKXE VZRK KJTL UHTJ HQCU BSLG EQZD IFAQ DMGF LYRX TLNX |
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Post by betacam on Sept 10, 2016 19:00:25 GMT
I AM REALLY NOT SURE IF THIS TRITON PROCEDURE IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT AS FAR AS MAKING IT HARDER TO CRACK.
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Post by Arnaud on Sept 10, 2016 19:14:28 GMT
Yeah!!!
Do try to answer in officer's mode using the same code sheets
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Post by betacam on Sept 10, 2016 20:32:34 GMT
LYRX TLNX QIGW EZXS ZUME WSYJ PNDI JVPD HCIF TYBE IXKV LDPV CAET YAID RZTA SZBT SAWI HEQG GPPA NSXS IBBF IBKE UGZW HOGK MRAJ UVDR MAJT TNTQ ITOM HWWQ UFNM KUGP DDTU DABI LLJS HIMP OVCP DICS VXWO PGSQ JOMB BBIJ WPUL MTLY YIJZ GBNV GTXY XBAZ ZSMH WRYM CLUF GCDQ EGSP IETE OXPP KEJE VDHN EMHS KRFZ CULS NMXA VHWX LYRX TLNX
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Post by Arnaud on Sept 10, 2016 23:02:36 GMT
I would also have thought that double encryption makes it harder to crack just by the simple fact that; if you're trying out possible keys, even if you get it right, the outcome looks like gibberish and you'd think that was not it.
But this is kind of voided by including a clear text header before the second encryption.
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Post by Arnaud on Jun 30, 2017 14:58:30 GMT
Hey guys.. A while ago I posted this coded text (triton and officer) and it seems that someone figured out how to read it. Now I have technician275 asking me to help him decipher the thing and I can't do it anymore. Even though the bigram does give out LFM which is the sign for the 9th, the rest of the procedure should give out a clear text heading with the name of the officer that will indicate the settings for the officer's part of the message. Well, it does not. All I get is RUEH EPFH CHQL LCUB RMKV .... and so on betacam did answer with the same settings but I can't do it either. I think it is highly improbable that I did a mistake while encoding it and that betacam did the same mistake (backwards) while decoding it. So, I must be doing something wrong now. Can someone help. |
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Post by mauser on Sept 22, 2017 18:01:32 GMT
Gents,
The problem is simple really, when you decoded the bigram you caught the 'LFM' and in the lower cell was 'DIY'. When you ran that into the Enigma, you got 'IWV'. You then set your wheels to 'JIWV'. And you got crap. You did set up everything otherwise correctly: BBeta347, Ringstellung: AXCR, Stecker: QXSWHYFJRTLGEIDMACOV (I don't use numbers unless forced and the cracker never does). I used 'XOFFIZIERX' as a crib. In 4.41 seconds I found your error. It was a typo on your part, you used 'JIWY' instead of 'JIWV'. I get the cleartext, 'EWCGXVONXHERISSONXOFFIZIERXMAX'. Changed the stecker to date of month 1-10, used the 'MAX' message key, and the first part of your message is: "I AM REALLY NOT SURE IF THIS TRITON PROCEDURE IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT AS FAR AS MAKING IT HARDER TO CRACK" Side note: it wasn't intended to make it harder to crack, it was intended to keep the message private between the Captain and HQ, and his crew did not have a need to know.
I didn't bother decoding the rest of the message, I leave that to you. But the typo 'V' vs 'Y' would be a really easy thing to make. Glad I could help.
Mauser sends.
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Post by mauser on Sept 23, 2017 0:42:44 GMT
Quote from betacam: "LYRX TLNX QIGW EZXS ZUME WSYJ PNDI JVPD HCIF TYBE IXKV LDPV CAET YAID RZTA SZBT SAWI HEQG GPPA NSXS IBBF IBKE UGZW HOGK MRAJ UVDR MAJT TNTQ ITOM HWWQ UFNM KUGP DDTU DABI LLJS HIMP OVCP DICS VXWO PGSQ JOMB BBIJ WPUL MTLY YIJZ GBNV GTXY XBAZ ZSMH WRYM CLUF GCDQ EGSP IETE OXPP KEJE VDHN EMHS KRFZ CULS NMXA VHWX LYRX TLNX"
Initial decode: "JA JA JA WAS IST LOS WAS IST DAS EINS ZWEI POLIZEI DREI VIER OFFIZIER X BRUNO" My first thought was seriously!? Childish. I almost left it at that, but I told more mature serious folks I'd try to open the thing up. So, applying 'BRUNO' to the rest of the message resulted in, "DOUBLE ENCIPHERING VERY MUCH COMPLICATES MESSAGE BREAKING XX I HAVE NOT FOUND IN HISTORICALLY MATERIALS OF THE DESCRIPTION AS OFTEN IT WAS APPLIED XX VERY IN CONCRETE MENTION OF MESSAGES OF SPECIAL IMPORTANCE XXR"
I run into anymore garbage like that as a header, I won't go further with it. I'll simply report it as childish gibberish, decode it yourself.
Mauser sends.
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Post by Arnaud on Nov 16, 2017 8:53:31 GMT
Gents, The problem is simple really, when you decoded the bigram you caught the 'LFM' and in the lower cell was 'DIY'. When you ran that into the Enigma, you got 'IWV'. You then set your wheels to 'JIWV'. And you got crap. You did set up everything otherwise correctly: BBeta347, Ringstellung: AXCR, Stecker: QXSWHYFJRTLGEIDMACOV (I don't use numbers unless forced and the cracker never does). I used 'XOFFIZIERX' as a crib. In 4.41 seconds I found your error. It was a typo on your part, you used 'JIWY' instead of 'JIWV'. I get the cleartext, 'EWCGXVONXHERISSONXOFFIZIERXMAX'. Changed the stecker to date of month 1-10, used the 'MAX' message key, and the first part of your message is: "I AM REALLY NOT SURE IF THIS TRITON PROCEDURE IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT AS FAR AS MAKING IT HARDER TO CRACK" Side note: it wasn't intended to make it harder to crack, it was intended to keep the message private between the Captain and HQ, and his crew did not have a need to know. I didn't bother decoding the rest of the message, I leave that to you. But the typo 'V' vs 'Y' would be a really easy thing to make. Glad I could help. Mauser sends. Holy cow, that is impressive, thanks |
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Post by Arnaud on Dec 25, 2017 0:39:54 GMT
Gents, The problem is simple really, when you decoded the bigram you caught the 'LFM' and in the lower cell was 'DIY'. When you ran that into the Enigma, you got 'IWV'. You then set your wheels to 'JIWV'. And you got crap. You did set up everything otherwise correctly: BBeta347, Ringstellung: AXCR, Stecker: QXSWHYFJRTLGEIDMACOV (I don't use numbers unless forced and the cracker never does). I used 'XOFFIZIERX' as a crib. In 4.41 seconds I found your error. It was a typo on your part, you used 'JIWY' instead of 'JIWV'. I get the cleartext, 'EWCGXVONXHERISSONXOFFIZIERXMAX'. Changed the stecker to date of month 1-10, used the 'MAX' message key, and the first part of your message is: "I AM REALLY NOT SURE IF THIS TRITON PROCEDURE IS SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT AS FAR AS MAKING IT HARDER TO CRACK" Side note: it wasn't intended to make it harder to crack, it was intended to keep the message private between the Captain and HQ, and his crew did not have a need to know. I didn't bother decoding the rest of the message, I leave that to you. But the typo 'V' vs 'Y' would be a really easy thing to make. Glad I could help. Mauser sends. I just found out that, in this case, the bigram table is not reciprocal FV=TL TL=FY hence the deciphering difficulties. I'm guessing that when these sheets were made by hand on old typewriters by armies of typists, typos must have been frequent...who knows how many messages were lost because of typos |
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Post by ZZ9pZa on Dec 25, 2017 15:46:44 GMT
Dear Arnaud, I thought a little noise around you would not distract you very much.  It took me two tries to realise that for this procedure I had to drop the last letter instead of using all four.  |
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Post by Arnaud on Dec 25, 2017 20:27:55 GMT
Yep...the original message is from 2016....the 4 letter procedure is from late 2017 I think.
This is going to be a problem for new users who will not know which procedure to use.
We have the M3 procedure, M4 with 3 or 4 letters, Triton old style, and the new procedure for 2018 (and their Offizier variant).
Since I guess newbies will, just as I did back then, practice on old posts in this forum, I wish them luck.
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Post by mauser on Dec 27, 2017 1:52:47 GMT
Yep...the original message is from 2016....the 4 letter procedure is from late 2017 I think. This is going to be a problem for new users who will not know which procedure to use. We have the M3 procedure, M4 with 3 or 4 letters, Triton old style, and the new procedure for 2018 (and their Offizier variant). Since I guess newbies will, just as I did back then, practice on old posts in this forum, I wish them luck. Actually guys, we do have a way to discern the difference. The old M3 procedure applied to Triton messages should be prefixed by: [EWCG2017TRITON]. If you are doing Triton with the corrected M4 procedure, you prefix your message with: [EWCG2017TRITON][FLK]. Starting in 2018, M4 message traffic will or should be prefixed with [EWCG2018TRITON] or [EWCG2018HYDRA]. The need for the FLK reference will be unnecessary since all M4 traffic uses a Four Letter Key. There will be two Enigma General Procedure Keys, Triton, for deep ocean messages, and Hydra, which is for home/coastal waters. Short Signal Messages (Kurzsignal) should be obvious by the brevity and format of the message, but to aid new folks to the Short Signal procedure, prefix the message with [EWCG2018KURZ] to make it infinitely clear that this is a short message type. Daily Cipher Keys for 2018 Triton and Hydra Key Systems can be found via a Drop Box link found elsewhere here in messages. The Kenngruppenbuch needed to create actual M4 messages is also located at the Drop Box link along with other important documents. The procedures and prefixes for Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe messages using Enigma machines with only 3 wheels remains unchanged. Refer to the sticky on this site by lpaseen to get procedures and keying materials. Hope this helps a little. Mauser sends. |
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Post by Arnaud on Dec 27, 2017 22:06:55 GMT
Well, I'm not so sure about mentioning Triton or Hydra in the net indicator. Decoding the message indicator to know whether it is Triton or Hydra is a big part of the fun.
If I already know which keysheets to use, I won't use all the tables and bigrams. I'll just check the date and grab the right key.
Well, this is not entirely true, I'd still need the start position but....I'd miss "discovering" if I need Triton or Hydra sheets.
Maybe we could use a "neutral" net name that would indicate the new procedure but not reveal which one.
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